This episode is from of the Borderlands Trail and Ultra Running Podcast.
Episode Summary
Legitimate dirtbag ultrarunners started wearing luxury running brands giving credence to a vision that endurance trail runners deserved too.
But what is a Luxury Running Brand exactly and how do Luxury Running Brands coexist in trail running and ultrarunning culture?
There is tension here to be sure. The old guard wants to see the heritage dirtbag ethos preserved with a set of unspoken rules on how we ‘should’ be ultrarunners. And others, like Josh, think that ultrarunning is what makes someone an ultra runner, not the apparel or gear or whatever else.
Will Luxury Running Brands survive the brutal reality of the sport and those who fancy themselves gatekeepers? Or will it push through with no regard for what the naysayers think?
Are luxury running brands are here to stay?
It’s probably too soon to say, but in this episode we explore:
- What is traditional ultrarunning culture?
- What is luxury?
- What is a luxury running brand?
- The appearance of authenticity vs. earned authenticity
Topics / Timestamps
01:14 Why does Luxury Feel Strange in Ultrarunning?
03:45 What is Traditional Ultrarunning Culture?
10:48 5 Markers of Traditional Ultrarunning Culture
15:44 What even is luxury?
20:40 What is a “luxury running brand”?
24:25 Why do luxury running brands bother people?
27:43 A Weird Moment in Luxury Ultrarunning
31:45 The Old Guard of Ultrarunning
Resources / Links
- [article] Why “Luxury Running Brands” Feels Strange In Ultrarunning
- Satisfy
- Currently
- Running Sucks
- Ultrarunning History by Davy Crocket
Related Episodes
Transcript
Speaker: Borderlands
It’s the Borderlands Trail and Ultra Running podcast presented by Kip Run. My name is Josh Rosenthal. I am the host and the founder of Borderlands Trail Running. This coming week, I am running 120 kilometers at a race called Eco Trail. And I just get lost in the thought of actually doing it. I’m so stoked. I had some like Achilles tendonitis stuff kick up yesterday, something I’d never experienced before. And I think that’s what it is. Really hope that goes away because as we prepare to move back to the United States, July this is one of the last big hurrahs in terms of my running and my two years of being here with my family And so I’ll be doing that in the Kip Summit maxes or the Kip Summit races, maybe even both still working through that Those shoes are gonna be releasing in the United States on April 6th. I’ve got a really fun podcast episode coming together That will release on USA release day, which is April 6th
And I got a bunch of other videos that I went and did from headquarters at Decathlon where Kiprun, you know, it was born here in Lille, France. It’s a lot coming there. I’m super stoked about it. But today I’m asking the question, why luxury running brands feels strange and ultra running? So there’s been a lot of discussion about, you know, luxury running brands and it’s going to be different than premium running brands as you’ll, as you’ll see, as I lay that out, there’s been lots of discussion about it lately. And I think everyone immediately goes to the supposition that it is strange. And they argue from that point. not that I’m looking to argue here, but I’m just looking to say, here’s why I think it feels strange. And I think it’s an important thing to think about in this culture here, because as it grows, and we’re toeing the line of these races and everyone’s wearing, all these different brands it’d be the dumbest thing in the world to laugh at someone for a brand that they’re wearing. Now I get meme culture.
Check out my 10 things I love about trial running right now podcast where I go into depth. think it was number seven on meme culture. Like I get it extremely useful as it holds up a mirror to these brands or to us or to anybody and you know, very valuable. what a dumb thing it’d be to just give someone a hard time for what they’re wearing. I think that anybody should be able to wear whatever they want. Now that’s not the the crux of this episode, but I’m just saying from the beginning, you can wear anything that you want. I don’t care what you wear. You you are welcome here. What makes you a runner is that you run. It’s not what you wear, and we all know that, but I’m just saying from the outset. But I do think it’s interesting to explore this question. Why does luxury running feel strange in ultra running? For most of ultra running’s history, ultra running, I don’t think it’s been a gear culture.
You know, it’s been a movement culture. It’s been about, it’s been about the run. Everything else was secondary. How you looked while you were running was not only not secondary. was like tertiary. It was way out. It was way out there. You showed up, you ran, you finished, you didn’t whatever, you know, like this is ultra running. It was not about how you looked. The gear was never the point. The clothing was never the point. was all.
a means to an end, the end being the run. running was not the means to the end either. Running was the end, the act of doing it. Whether you finished or not, that is the thing that, you know, made you a runner. And we’re talking in the context of ultrarunning, but you know, as luxury running brands have appeared, Satisfye being the most prominent, a lot of people in the ultrarunning world, that feels strange.
And so why does it feel strange? You know, in order to understand it, think you have to understand traditional running culture, ultra running culture. Now this was the part that it was actually just a really enjoyable exercise for me to say, okay, if it feels strange in order for something to feel strange, you have to sort of understand the thing that you’re comparing it against. if, if luxury running brands feel strange, what is the thing that it feels strange against? Well, it’s.
Ultra running culture. What’s the soul of ultra running first? First, I think you have to establish that then I think you have to establish what luxury is and you put the two together and then I think we’re gonna see pretty clearly why it feels strange You know, you’ve got sort of like the litmus test of like yeah, it feels strange. Let’s articulate it here Because I think it’s useful. Okay where the soul of ultra running comes from there’s there’s a Pattern for me as I asked this question. I thought okay
Just as an exercise, a historian or someone who’s further into the sport is not going to come up with these three. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. But if you think about, what’s the origin of ultra running, of endurance running? Well, know, I said, OK, think of three races, three things that are like the origin of endurance running as we know it today. Obviously, the original marathon, 490 BC, Fiatipedes, or however you say that name.
running the 25 ish miles and Collapsing at the end like everyone thinks of that story Dean carnassus tells that story so well The other one that I came up with of when I think of okay, like what where are the origins for what? know it as today. There’s pedestrianism from the 1800s, of course Do a deep dive into that ultra running history Davy Crockett all that stuff super interesting Comrades marathon 1921 the one of the oldest
Ultra marathons, if not the oldest ultra marathons, still going, ultra marathon out there. And then of course, Western States. And what’s interesting to me is as I wrote those three down and I just started to do some reading about them, the conclusion is that these three are all very similar. So again, this is anecdotal. These are the things that say, okay, what are the three early ones? The actual running of the marathon, where the marathon came from, 490 BC, comrades.
1921, Western States 1974. Okay.
What do those all have in common? This was interesting. The thread that went through all three of those was actually some connection with the military. Comrades Marathon, this was some guys who said we had some fallen soldiers in World War I, and rather than just put up a monument for our fallen comrades, we’re gonna run this race every year, and we’re gonna remember them. So it was rather than a statue that you go stand in front of,
They were going to run this really long distance every year, sometimes uphill, sometimes downhill. It would alternate yearly and it was to commemorate their comrades that had fallen in World War I. The original marathon, 490 BC, well that was, you know, declaring victory in a battle. There was a connection to that. And then number three, Western Saves. This one’s actually really interesting because
The narrative that’s out there is that Gordie Ainsley was the first person to run Western states on foot when it was called the Tevis Cup started by Wendell Berry, Wendell Berry, poet, Wendell Roby. Wendell Roby wanted Auburn to be the endurance capital of the United States, the world really. And so he had the Tevis Cup and it was this dream, you know, that the more endurance on foot stuff would happen there. Well, in 19…
what would it be, 1970? It was two years before Gordy. So two years before Gordy ran Western states on foot. Two years before that, there were a group of army soldiers ran
Western States on foot and the goal was to do it in less than 48 hours. And I think the guy, Lieutenant Hall, was at the front of that in 44 hours. Again, this is all Davy Crockett, ultra running history, check that out for the full deep dive. But these guys on foot did it first two years before Gordy. Gordy was just the first person to do it in under 24 hours. And there’s even some discrepancy as to whether not it was the full 100 miles. So I’m not saying that Western States isn’t telling the
truth about the origin story but the origin story does go back a little bit further a couple years before and that these guys did it on foot they started before so they wouldn’t interfere with the horses Gordy ran with the horses there’s there’s nothing misleading about Gordy’s story other than you don’t always get to hear that these army soldiers did it together as like a team building-ish exercise a couple years before so you got this needle this thread going needling through
the three races that came to mind for me, that was all military. So why is that important? Well, it’s not so much that ultra running is military. I’m not saying that, but that the culture indirectly inherited some values, maybe that came from that. That endurance, stubbornness, movement over comfort, that everything that you have that’s kind of being pulled in has purpose and has a use.
It’s very functional by nature. It’s mission oriented. And, you know, we’re going to run these 25 miles to tell, you know, the people that we, you know, that we won this battle. We’re going to run these 60 miles, whatever Comrades is, and we’re going to commemorate the fallen soldiers or the soldiers that first ran Western State. There’s this ethos in the movement that’s connected to
these values, okay? So we can throw the military thing out the window. I wanted to say that’s the thread. We don’t have to talk about the military anymore, but it’s just to say that it’s a very practical endeavor. It’s purposeful. And so the gear all supports the mission. The mission doesn’t create a gear culture. So the gear can be fantastic, but in the end, if it doesn’t serve the purpose of the mission, then it doesn’t have a use.
So you can pull in whatever gear or food that you need. It’s all about keep moving.
So what traditional ultra running actually looks like, and from the roots that came in that created this culture, if I had to boil it down to what’s the core, looking at all this sort of stuff, I reduced it down to five things.
This is what traditional running actually traditional ultra running actually looks like. Number one, the run is primary. The setting is secondary. The gear is tertiary. This is probably the most you’ve ever heard the word tertiary in a podcast Ultra running culture prioritizes the run itself. I’ve said that. So where you run matters, but a small park on an infinite loop is just fine for us.
The gear is pure utility. Every decision serves the function of running. The run is primary, the setting is secondary, the gear is tertiary. Number two, dirtbag. You I always say that I love dirtbag culture, but as I explored this and went through this, I thought, I love dirtbag culture. That’s so foundational, but it’s become in vogue to a degree. But the reality of what dirtbag is, is that you’re dirty by accident. You’re dirty because you’ve been outside all day.
And the run was more important than worrying about what you look like. Some of these old dirt bags are running in old race t-shirts that they had for years with, you know, worn through holes. None of it was intentional though. None of it was like a vibe. None of it was intended to be a look. It was just back to that thing that all this was just intended to be, to enable the run. The run was king. It just happened because you kept running in it. So it wore out and so they’ve got holes in it or they got, you know,
whatever, whatever comes with, you know, that much use. Okay, number three, Outlaw Country. It doesn’t necessarily mean that’s the sound of it. I just mean that that’s like the brand and the vibe and that’s somewhat dirt bag, but it’s also back to this run as primary idea. Willie Nelson, Charlie Pride, maybe some Bonnie Raitt. I know we’re getting some blues in there. Definitely Johnny Cash.
But not because of how it sounded, but because of just what it represented. I do things my way. That’s the core of that. We’re not gonna adjust the sound that’s in our mind or the message that’s in our heart. We’re not going to change that so that it’s more palatable. Willie knew how to sing, knows how to sing, can’t believe he’s still going. Willie knows how to sing a song.
that appeals to that, that, you know, I do things my way vibe. Ultra running wasn’t loud or aggressive. It was quiet, you know, think of Scott jerk and, any of the great books of like that 2010s or before that era, like it was a quiet endeavors. Like you just went out and you went hard and you ran and you did multiple loops of a thing when you’re training, going up and down the mountains. And it, know, it was a quiet discipline, especially, especially before
social media. Number four, day jobs. Like I think the ethos of ultra running was, you know, non-professional. You have jobs, kids, mortgages, squeezing in long runs before or after work. You’re usually either starting in the dark or finishing in the dark because of all the stuff that you’re juggling. This professionalization is very recent. And you know, if you follow the podcast, I’m for it. I love it.
I obsess over, I lose sleep over the professionalization. I look forward to Black Canyon and Western States and UTMB and a number of other races, Chianti coming up. Like I legitimately lose sleep over those. However, that’s just not what was at the root of ultra running. It’s always belonged more to the ordinary stubborn people than the polished athletes. That’s one of the things that’s made it beautiful.
Think of all of the characters I met in the early 2010s as my dude Jeremy Cox was bringing me in. There were a lot of beer guts, there were lot of these torn clothes. I’m actually listening to Willie Nelson or cowboy poetry or whatever. This was the ethos. And so you also see the bias that this is where I came in. But as I tried to do a wider scope study of it, it seemed like these were…
universal to its foundation. Number five, no posers. There’s no such thing as looking like a runner. That’s so foreign to look like a runner. mean, maybe like when someone looks like a skier because they have the ski tan line on their face, maybe that looks like a skier because that’s evidence that you’re actually skiing, you’re actually in the sun and you’re actually wearing the goggles. But there’s no such thing as looking like a runner. You either run or you don’t. Clothes don’t make you a runner.
The gear doesn’t make you a runner, running makes you a runner. Okay, let’s put that on the shelf. We’ve established that those five things. Let me just repeat them. The runners primary dirt bag, outlaw country, day jobs, and no posers. You’re either a runner or you’re not a runner. That’s it. Clothes don’t make the runner. The runner makes the runner. Okay, I have to shelf that because we’re looking at luxury.
and ultra running. So you have to define what luxury is. It’s not as it wasn’t as obvious to me before I got into entrepreneurship and started thinking about pricing strategies and all that. But luxury is not just a price. It’s a lot of people confuse luxury with expensive, but they’re not the same thing. Luxury and expensive are not the same thing. Okay, so let’s break this down. We’ve got value, premium and luxury. Value brands compete on price.
Target, Walmart, Decathlon, they’re competing on price. It’s not to say that the stuff isn’t good, that it doesn’t hold up. It’s just that from a marketing perspective, you you look at Decathlon, I think Decathlon, which America has not adopted, even though it tried, they tried to bring their stores there. Decathlon is like a democratization of sport, which is because the prices are very, very low, but the quality is really, really high.
But even if the quality wasn’t high, that price being low is what’s so good. Like it’s allowing my son to try water polo here, or we got an inexpensive handball from there. And we got the water polo ball from there. We got head to toe ski gear for under $100 for a ski trip that he went on with his school. Like that’s value. So when people talk about the Cathlon, it’s often they’re saying, wow, I can’t believe how inexpensive that is. And it also happens to be good, but I’m there because it’s inexpensive.
Okay, premium brands, we’re looking like Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein. Premium brands compete on features first and price second. So when you talk about premium, premium isn’t just how much it costs relative to value brands. It’s just saying, hey, you need these functions. We prioritize these functions and then we backed into a cost for us that works and a price that works for you possibly if you can afford it. Can’t always afford premium.
But the thing that drives premium is its utility, is its function. They prioritize function and say, this works at a high level. holds up when you’re on, I don’t know, Calvin Klein, when you’re on your yacht or whatever you’re doing, deck shoes, the origin of vans. It holds up when you’re there. Luxury, looking at brands like Hermes and Louis Vuitton.
They compete on something else entirely. It’s status, identity, indulgence. Utility is not the point. In fact, the absence of utility is somewhat the point. It’s a flex. You know, this is what utility is. It’s status. Luxury goods exist beyond basic function, far beyond it. They’re not essential. You don’t need luxury and they’re not about solving a basic problem. Value solves a problem. I don’t have a lot of money, but I want to do this thing.
premium solves a problem. need gear that does this thing. I think about like rock climbing. if I were a rock climber, which I’m not and I never will be, I would think that I have a real high price sensitivity, meaning I’ll spend a lot of money to make sure that it has the function that I need. So I’m going to go for the most premium if I’m going to be on the side of a rock that’s really high up. Luxury has no value other than the flex. Its greatest value is the flex. Think about
anything that you see from Louis Vuitton or Hermes or any of the luxury brands, you’re gonna see the products that they release and you think, yeah, non-essential, that is not essential. And if I just needed a suitcase that had a few extra pockets and was that size, there’s cheaper out there. There’s premium brands like Toomey that could give you a good suitcase. You would only go to Hermes or Louis Vuitton.
Not only, but often there’s a flex involved, there’s a status involved. And I’m not saying you can’t genuinely love the artifacts of those brands, because they are stunning. The window shopping here in Paris, it’s so cool to go look at that stuff, even if I’m not gonna be a buyer. So that’s luxury, luxury lacks utility. So we have ultra running and we have luxury now defined. You see why it starts to feel strange, because it’s a culture built on…
practical and useful and the act of running is king and you’re when you’re mashing into it what satisfies done is it’s thrown itself into that and said and as a disruptor and said all the things that I’ve said that is traditional with ultra running culture they just kind of blown all that up and said you know what all of you old conservatives who love to see the culture remain that we’re just gonna blow all that up we’re gonna redefine it and say like this you
Pearl, those, you Pearl clutching ultra runners, check this out. We can do all of these other things that you say running is not, and we’re gonna bring it in through a luxury sort of game plan. So a luxury running brand, what is a luxury running brand? It’s a brand where the price is high and the emphasis is on identity over utility. The gear is not essential, it’s not basic.
It’s indulgent. If you think about the brand, the brands that come to mind, optimistic runners and satisfy, I see that stuff and I feel, yep, not essential, especially at that price. It’s not basic. You can see them marketing in the language of where they produce the stuff, how they produce the stuff, and what they call their technology, all that sort of stuff. It’s indulgent. That’s what luxury is.
I don’t think they would be offended by that idea to say it’s indulgent. That’s the nature of luxury. If you have extra money laying around and you can afford that stuff, I don’t begrudge that to you. Congratulations, I’m happy for you. If you’re happy that you have that extra money, I’m happy for you. Go buy it, but it’s indulgent.
That’s what it is. You don’t need that stuff in order to go do the core stuff of what makes ultra running ultra running. So that’s what sounds strange to a sport that historically didn’t care, hasn’t cared about gear, never having really been about gear. Like some of those, I mentioned the pedestrian, like the pedestrianism six day races of the 1800s. I think about the gear. I mean, are they wearing top hats? Were they wearing suits? Like, whoa, you know.
You see all that stuff and you think, how do they actually do it? You look at Andy Payne who in 1928 ran from Los Angeles with 250 runners in 1928, ran from Los Angeles to New York. You what was the gear like then? don’t think that they were sitting, Andy Payne was sitting around thinking about how he looked while he was running. He was thinking about what can I, what do I need near me that’s gonna get me across country fastest? And the way that Laz told the story of Andy Payne was that
Andy wanted to get across the country as fast as possible because he needed money to save the family farm. Like, you know, like that to me feels like core ultra running lore and connected to that military piece of there’s a mission and this is what we’re going to do. And that’s the language. And that doesn’t that sound a lot like the myth of the cowboy and the myth of the West? Uh, I think they share similar myths. I don’t think that one has taken from the other. I just think they share similar myths where
the myth of the cowboy and the individual and you know that you can go west, you can go take what’s yours, you know, the individual hero, all of that sort of, all that’s baked into the culture of ultra running. And to be clear with all this, again, I’m not against it. I’m 100 % for it because I love the individual. I think every individual should do whatever the hell they want. That is what’s great about running. And then these incredible brands out there, whether they be value, like,
I’m sorry if I’m not saying that correctly, but they’re the really, really affordable clothes out there that I hear from, you know, guys like Jesse Rich that they’re very good still, even though they’re at a low price point. Like you can do any one of these, you can pick any category of value and premium and luxury. And there are brands in those spaces as running is growing that can create something that appeals to you. I love it.
If someone wants to spend $400 on a running jacket, even if I wouldn’t do that, which I might for some of that sore gear, because my goodness, it’s good, why would that bother you if someone was doing that? Maybe there’s a good reason. here’s why I think it bothers you. Because this is where if I’m not careful, because I try around every corner,
to avoid being a gatekeeper. I don’t want a gatekeep. I want everybody to come in and run. If running is such a good sport, why would you want to keep anyone out based off of something as stupid as how they dress when they do it? Everybody’s welcome. Where I catch myself on this topic of being critical of luxury brands, even though I’m in it, I go to Paris Fashion Week, I love to see the running culture, I love to see what’s happening in running apparel, but it does create an interesting
cultural moment When authenticity becomes the aesthetic, that’s the part that’s hard because I think that only happens through manufacturing. Like authenticity becomes an aesthetic, well if something has holes in it is that all of a sudden more authentic? some at some point like a good thrift store find was very authentic because that shirt had a story, let’s say it was a
actual band t-shirt from the 70s, you find that at a Goodwill. Like you’ve just grabbed onto a story. Well, manufactured authenticity is when we remake that shirt 50 years later and that shirt looks like it was from the 70s but wasn’t actually from the 70s and the paint on the shirt and the screen printing, all that, you…
put chemicals on it to have it sort of break and crack like it was a shirt from the 70s. That’s the manufactured authenticity. And I think that’s at its core why a lot of people have issues with what’s happening in luxury, some of the luxury running is that it’s a manufactured authenticity. It’s not an authentic authenticity. Because by my argument that I’m making an authentic authenticity would be that the shirt would be
run down, ideally because you’re the one who got it new and you ran in it so much until it broke down on its own and it ripped holes in it on its own. And that shirt had a story. Not only was it a story because it’s been around for a long time, it’s a story because you wore it so much and you broke it down.
It’s just culturally a little strange in a sport where authenticity has historically been earned. That’s the problem. So those who’ve been in it for a long time, who’ve been, you know, decade or more, I mean, the amount of the sport has changed in the decade plus that I’ve been a part of it is insane. That, a lot of us had stuff and had, you know, had bruises and cuts on our bodies and scars and all that.
that told the story and that felt authentic and it felt like that we earned that place in ultra running. I’ve DNF’d so many hundred mile races. I finished two, I’ve DNF’d eight. Like I feel like I’ve earned my place in this sport. I’ve earned the right to say that I suck at it. some people say they suck at it and they, you haven’t DNF’d 80 % of your, you know, your A race attempts. You know, you’ve earned it. There’s an element of earning.
Your stripes earning your medal like all this sort of stuff and I guess that kind of goes back to that military language military culture So there was the weird moment that a lot of you know about a lot of great podcasts have already talked about it a lot of great media Because it was interesting. It was when when Satisfy and currently running there was like a one-sided beef. It was really just breeze coming out strong breeze partouche founder of Satisfy coming out strong against the aesthetic of currently running saying that currently running had
been very inspired by Satisfye. Satisfye publicly called him out on Instagram. think Raz running sucks 101 was the first person to break that story, to pull those screenshots and write about it. What made the whole thing interesting wasn’t really the copying accusation to me that he copied. It was what it revealed about the position of luxury in the sport. And I’ll say ultra running, but currently and
Satisfye, Satisfye plays a lot in ultra running because they’re key people like Max Jalief and Mike Verstieg A lot of them are in ultra. Okay, so that’s where Satisfye gets They’ve used ultra because I think it has that ultimate myth of the cowboy and Satisfye is like brand is branded as the American West and I think that the ultra in the desert the ultra in the you American West
Mountains is phenomenal backdrop for what they’re trying to say. So I think of them as ultra running, trail running and Nash, he plays on, you know, in his branding on a lot on track, on road, on trail. I think it revealed a lot about luxury currently prove that the function and aesthetic of satisfy can be priced much lower. So I think currently played is playing a premium game.
because it’s still not cheap. Go to Target if you’re a value player, know, Tarragnata. Go to some other brand if you’re a value buyer, where price is your most important thing. Satisfy is very expensive. Currently Running came in and played a premium game against someone who’s playing a luxury game.
and the luxury player got really, really angry because what currently proved is that you could have the aesthetic and the technology of a luxury player, but market it as premium and price it as premium instead of pricing it as luxury. And you can sort of really get under the skin. I don’t know if they’re taking away sales. I don’t know what’s driving that, but you can really get under the skin of the luxury player by doing that.
When the argument shifted toward who made the better or more functional product, the better looking product, all of the values with which Brice was frustrated with Nash about were premium values. And so it just didn’t, it was one of the only times I think, I feel like Satisfye or Brice, Pertus broke character on the Satisfye brand. was the first time I saw it.
because he left his perch as the preeminent alpha of running luxury and went and played in premium. And that’s just not who Satisfye is. didn’t even, he didn’t need to do
But the friction is kind of the point, right? mean, ultra running has always been a culture where authenticity is earned through effort.
miles, time, suffering, long days outside. But luxury brands are selling something different, identity, aesthetics, experience. And that’s great because a lot of people love it so much that they want to be connected to it in one way or another all day and all night. Like take Norda’s branding of their 008 slides, like recovery slides. The branding is that you’re only running an hour a day. You’re not running that much. You are not running more often than you are running.
So wear these slides because you can still be connected to Norda even when you’re not running. I think it’s brilliant. you know, Norda, great lifestyle brand. But when you step into a culture built on earned authenticity, luxury strategies are gonna create some friction. That’s just how it is. But that’s why I think Satisfye or Optimistic, that’s why they’re all so successful.
Depending on how you measure success like they’re successful because they are pushing up against that Because yes, there is an old guard and this old guard drives me nuts also who’s trying to protect and preserve They’re very conservative. They’re very conservative about keeping the ultra running movement what it used to be and Then there’s this progressive idea that is rubbing up against is that no ultra running can can be in the eyes of the beholder It doesn’t have to be a certain thing. You don’t even have to kiss the ring
I interviewed Tommy runs hasn’t come out yet. my interview with Tommy runs was, you know, he got into Western states and my joke was how did you cut in front of the line? And he explains that in the podcast. And then he says, you know, I’m trying to honor and respect the culture. And I think that’s really nice of you at the same time. That’s don’t do that. Like that, you know, that kissing of the ring thing gives the the guard the people who are protecting it and calling it what it is gives them more power than they deserve. I think I mean that he was able to get
into western states on his first attempt. I mean not even his first attempt, he’s a guest of a brand. Good for him, my god, I would take it too. That’s exactly what he should do is take it. Even though it’s gonna piss off a lot of the old guard who’s trying to protect it and preserve what it used to be, you should take it. And so that’s, to me, where I land on this whole topic is that I don’t have the money to buy a $400 jacket, but if you do and you’re happy and that…
jacket also makes you want to You don’t care if you run in it, but if you’re happy and that jacket also makes you want to run, that is great. This this ultra running old guard culture that tries to preserve and protect, I hope to see that old guard let go more and more and that the new guard that comes in is just more open to more and more people doing it their own way.
If you made it all the way to the end, would you follow? And would you leave a review, subscribe, share this with anybody who you think would be interested. We’re in a phase right now, we’re looking to grow the podcast and any of that stuff helps tremendously. All right, appreciate you guys, take care.
